The Carcinosin -DISCUSSION
-Foubister.
The PRESIDENT Dr. A.D.Mac Neill, expressed the thanks of the meeting to Dr. Foubister for his most interesting paper and said he was interested in the relationship between Carcinosin and other remedies which had been mentioned. He ten opened the meeting to discussion.
Dr. T.D.Ross said that this paper had given us a great deal of material. The interesting thing was that. Dr. Foubister Carcinosin as a remedy for constitutions to make healthier people in particular starting in childhood. This of course was the best time to treat patient in order to prevent serious disease in the future. The use of Carcinosin in actual cancer had not produced such brilliant results. This is as we would expect, because in these cases we are dealing with ultimates of disease processes. Or are we? In fact some of those developing cancer have quite a good heredity and past history. many however, have bad health and may be nervous or asthmatic or have a bad heredity. In these Carcinosin is very valuable and one links it with Medorrhinum. He thought the stress on family history was important and should be more universally adopted in history taking. He also thought we ought to try using the newer more potent preparations of Carcinosin. Nelson's original Carcinosin had come from America and Dr. Compton Burnett got his from Epps, Thatcher. All these comments linked up with the virus theory of cancer. Are we perhaps using a virus or infecting agent along with antibodies? In our Carcinosin may be pure virus would be better and the method of preparation may be important. Several serums have been prepared for cancer in the past other than homoeopathic ones.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that he wished us about the new preparations as these were very potent and could cause violent reaction but in suitable cases worked very well indeed.
Dr. AHMAD asked replied why we used the 30, 200 and 1m potencies in series.
Dr. FOUBISTER replied that he thought this probably caused less aggravation than the single dose.
Dr. CAMPBELL describe a case of pernicious anaemia she had had in 1945 and had treated with Carcinosin 200, 3 doses weekly together with Ars. alb and Ferr. phos 6x repeated. This patient had been unable to go out or do nay work she was now well and able to undertake quite a lot. She had no vitamin B 12.
Dr. RUNCIE said he was interested in the relationship of cancer to an inflammatory state. Is it not helpful to induce an inflammatory condition in order to get a result, as there is a lack of inflammation in cancer? He quoted a case of a lady with ganglia on her wrist, one of which had been cut, but it recurred. She was treated with Benz. acid for a long time and the other ganglia disappeared. The one which had been cut remained. He discovered a history of miscarriage and prescribed pyrogen. The ganglion eventually cleared up.
Dr. FOUBISTER stated that an inflammatory state also occurs after using Iscador in cancer. He had used Carcinosin in cases of ganglion.
Dr. Cooper said he thought of Carcinosin if there was a history of syphilitic heredity and stated that he knew of a certain island which had had an epidemic of syphilis in 1870 and there was now much cancer hypertension and mental illness of a depressive type. He wondered if Carcinosin and Lueticum might be closely related.
To which Dr.FOUBISTER replied that he thought this was most likely, and these remedies were probably complementary.
Dr. DUTHIE said we were most fortunate in having heard Dr. Foubister as he had given us something that we could not get elsewhere. Burnett had originally introduced eleven carcinosins. He had also found that Nat. mur was a complement to Carcinosin. He thought that Thuja "woke up" his patients, He had found Dr. Foubister's remarks on modalities most interesting. he also stated that Clarke mentioned that milk should not be given and salt should be eliminated from the diet of patient with cancer as this seemed to stimulate tissue activity.
Dr. STEWART remarked that he thought Carcinosin should not be used in actual cases of cancer. This was in keeping with other nosodes. Burnett had found that Bacillinum was not much help in established cases of tuberculosis.
He then went on to the enjoyment of all by reciting.
Carcinosin. The Ballad of Cars and Sins.
Begins with car which makes you think of going away.
So travelling appeals to some of these poor souls.
The car begins with "C" which stands for cafe au lait.
complexion as well as cutaneous moles.
He craves or canny take at all.
Egg, fruit, fat, milk, and also sal.
"C" stands for consolation causing distress.
And consummate correctness and fastidiousness.
Carcinosin's last syllable starts with "S" And sins makes you think of sleeplessness.
Elbows and knees for the spots on which they rest.
"S" Stands for sea and sclerotics you've probably guessed.
Dr. GORDON ROSS said that he had now a much clearer idea of the Carcinosin type. He often used it in a new case in a child in order to prepare the ground for other remedies. He had recently had three cases of bad hearts in children in which he had used this remedy whose mothers were Nat mur cases.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that he had found it valuable in rheumatic fever, as many of these children have a cafe au lait appearance. He also thought it was necessary to repeat the remedy weekly in these cases. One might often start with Carcinosin and then obtain a clear indication for other remedies. He thought that more than one remedy was usually required in treatment.
Dr. T.D. ROSS asked if he had any experience of its use in cases of worms, and Dr. FOUBISTER replied that he had used it sometimes but was not sure how it compared with Burnett's Scirrhinum.
Dr. E.PATERSON said she thought Carcinosin was the end result of all miasms and this was why often Tub., medorrhinum and Lueticum were all needed Regarding Dr. Foubister's remarks that nosodes might be deep or superficial she thought they were always deep. She also wondered how soon one should repeat the Carcinosin. She remembered a case of a baby with a skin which had been greatly irritated by a nosodes and she felt this could not be left without some kind of treatment while the aggravation was wearing off.
To this Dr. FOUBISTER replied that when mentioned superficial he meant e.g. using B. coli mutabile for clearing up the remains of urinary infection. He thought that Carcinosin could be repeated in the same way as other remedies. Sometimes them mental symptoms of puls., or Staph may come out in children after Carcinosin and he wondered whether he should prescribe the remedy or wait.
Regarding the skin irritation he sometimes used hydrocortisone ointment, etc., in these cases, because he felt that the emotional upset of itch might well affect the action of the remedy.
Dr. GUNN said she was rather afraid of Carcinosin but had used it very successfully in repeated dosage of 3x for cases of chronic mastitis.
Dr. BOYD remarked that much stress had been placed on the appearance of these children, and he for one had not come across very many with the typical cafe au lait colour, moles and blue sclerotics and he wondered whether perhaps these were not as clear as one gathered from Dr. Foubister's whether perhaps these were not as one gathered from Dr. Foubister's paper. He also queried Dr. Stewart's statement regarding the use of nosodes in acute disease, as he had successfully helped a child with primary tuberculosis with three doses of Tub. bov. 12 c which had brought down the fever and cleared up the chest.
Dr. STEWART replied that he had been quoting Burnett on the use of Bacillinum in late cases.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that the appearance might be fully or only partially in evidence. If it were present, at least in this country it was a very suggestive pointer, but its partial or even complete absence, as in the case of other characteristic symptoms, should not deter one from prescribing Carcinosin providing it was indicated on other grounds such as family history of related remedies though apparently well indicated, or indications for two or more of the related remedies without complete coverage by one.
The meeting finished with a vote of thanks to Dr. Foubister for his most interesting paper.
The PRESIDENT Dr. A.D.Mac Neill, expressed the thanks of the meeting to Dr. Foubister for his most interesting paper and said he was interested in the relationship between Carcinosin and other remedies which had been mentioned. He ten opened the meeting to discussion.
Dr. T.D.Ross said that this paper had given us a great deal of material. The interesting thing was that. Dr. Foubister Carcinosin as a remedy for constitutions to make healthier people in particular starting in childhood. This of course was the best time to treat patient in order to prevent serious disease in the future. The use of Carcinosin in actual cancer had not produced such brilliant results. This is as we would expect, because in these cases we are dealing with ultimates of disease processes. Or are we? In fact some of those developing cancer have quite a good heredity and past history. many however, have bad health and may be nervous or asthmatic or have a bad heredity. In these Carcinosin is very valuable and one links it with Medorrhinum. He thought the stress on family history was important and should be more universally adopted in history taking. He also thought we ought to try using the newer more potent preparations of Carcinosin. Nelson's original Carcinosin had come from America and Dr. Compton Burnett got his from Epps, Thatcher. All these comments linked up with the virus theory of cancer. Are we perhaps using a virus or infecting agent along with antibodies? In our Carcinosin may be pure virus would be better and the method of preparation may be important. Several serums have been prepared for cancer in the past other than homoeopathic ones.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that he wished us about the new preparations as these were very potent and could cause violent reaction but in suitable cases worked very well indeed.
Dr. AHMAD asked replied why we used the 30, 200 and 1m potencies in series.
Dr. FOUBISTER replied that he thought this probably caused less aggravation than the single dose.
Dr. CAMPBELL describe a case of pernicious anaemia she had had in 1945 and had treated with Carcinosin 200, 3 doses weekly together with Ars. alb and Ferr. phos 6x repeated. This patient had been unable to go out or do nay work she was now well and able to undertake quite a lot. She had no vitamin B 12.
Dr. RUNCIE said he was interested in the relationship of cancer to an inflammatory state. Is it not helpful to induce an inflammatory condition in order to get a result, as there is a lack of inflammation in cancer? He quoted a case of a lady with ganglia on her wrist, one of which had been cut, but it recurred. She was treated with Benz. acid for a long time and the other ganglia disappeared. The one which had been cut remained. He discovered a history of miscarriage and prescribed pyrogen. The ganglion eventually cleared up.
Dr. FOUBISTER stated that an inflammatory state also occurs after using Iscador in cancer. He had used Carcinosin in cases of ganglion.
Dr. Cooper said he thought of Carcinosin if there was a history of syphilitic heredity and stated that he knew of a certain island which had had an epidemic of syphilis in 1870 and there was now much cancer hypertension and mental illness of a depressive type. He wondered if Carcinosin and Lueticum might be closely related.
To which Dr.FOUBISTER replied that he thought this was most likely, and these remedies were probably complementary.
Dr. DUTHIE said we were most fortunate in having heard Dr. Foubister as he had given us something that we could not get elsewhere. Burnett had originally introduced eleven carcinosins. He had also found that Nat. mur was a complement to Carcinosin. He thought that Thuja "woke up" his patients, He had found Dr. Foubister's remarks on modalities most interesting. he also stated that Clarke mentioned that milk should not be given and salt should be eliminated from the diet of patient with cancer as this seemed to stimulate tissue activity.
Dr. STEWART remarked that he thought Carcinosin should not be used in actual cases of cancer. This was in keeping with other nosodes. Burnett had found that Bacillinum was not much help in established cases of tuberculosis.
He then went on to the enjoyment of all by reciting.
Carcinosin. The Ballad of Cars and Sins.
Begins with car which makes you think of going away.
So travelling appeals to some of these poor souls.
The car begins with "C" which stands for cafe au lait.
complexion as well as cutaneous moles.
He craves or canny take at all.
Egg, fruit, fat, milk, and also sal.
"C" stands for consolation causing distress.
And consummate correctness and fastidiousness.
Carcinosin's last syllable starts with "S" And sins makes you think of sleeplessness.
Elbows and knees for the spots on which they rest.
"S" Stands for sea and sclerotics you've probably guessed.
Dr. GORDON ROSS said that he had now a much clearer idea of the Carcinosin type. He often used it in a new case in a child in order to prepare the ground for other remedies. He had recently had three cases of bad hearts in children in which he had used this remedy whose mothers were Nat mur cases.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that he had found it valuable in rheumatic fever, as many of these children have a cafe au lait appearance. He also thought it was necessary to repeat the remedy weekly in these cases. One might often start with Carcinosin and then obtain a clear indication for other remedies. He thought that more than one remedy was usually required in treatment.
Dr. T.D. ROSS asked if he had any experience of its use in cases of worms, and Dr. FOUBISTER replied that he had used it sometimes but was not sure how it compared with Burnett's Scirrhinum.
Dr. E.PATERSON said she thought Carcinosin was the end result of all miasms and this was why often Tub., medorrhinum and Lueticum were all needed Regarding Dr. Foubister's remarks that nosodes might be deep or superficial she thought they were always deep. She also wondered how soon one should repeat the Carcinosin. She remembered a case of a baby with a skin which had been greatly irritated by a nosodes and she felt this could not be left without some kind of treatment while the aggravation was wearing off.
To this Dr. FOUBISTER replied that when mentioned superficial he meant e.g. using B. coli mutabile for clearing up the remains of urinary infection. He thought that Carcinosin could be repeated in the same way as other remedies. Sometimes them mental symptoms of puls., or Staph may come out in children after Carcinosin and he wondered whether he should prescribe the remedy or wait.
Regarding the skin irritation he sometimes used hydrocortisone ointment, etc., in these cases, because he felt that the emotional upset of itch might well affect the action of the remedy.
Dr. GUNN said she was rather afraid of Carcinosin but had used it very successfully in repeated dosage of 3x for cases of chronic mastitis.
Dr. BOYD remarked that much stress had been placed on the appearance of these children, and he for one had not come across very many with the typical cafe au lait colour, moles and blue sclerotics and he wondered whether perhaps these were not as clear as one gathered from Dr. Foubister's whether perhaps these were not as one gathered from Dr. Foubister's paper. He also queried Dr. Stewart's statement regarding the use of nosodes in acute disease, as he had successfully helped a child with primary tuberculosis with three doses of Tub. bov. 12 c which had brought down the fever and cleared up the chest.
Dr. STEWART replied that he had been quoting Burnett on the use of Bacillinum in late cases.
Dr. FOUBISTER said that the appearance might be fully or only partially in evidence. If it were present, at least in this country it was a very suggestive pointer, but its partial or even complete absence, as in the case of other characteristic symptoms, should not deter one from prescribing Carcinosin providing it was indicated on other grounds such as family history of related remedies though apparently well indicated, or indications for two or more of the related remedies without complete coverage by one.
The meeting finished with a vote of thanks to Dr. Foubister for his most interesting paper.
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